Episode 56: Therapy Unfiltered: Myths & Misconceptions
A Conversation with the MLC Team
This week, Liz is joined by the MLC team to debunk myths and discuss common misconceptions about therapy. This is your front-row seat to a conversation with the MLC team as we dive into:
- Common myths and misconceptions we hear about therapy
- Coming to therapy with goals and without them
- What we wish more people knew about relationships & mental health
- Some inside perspectives on what couples therapy is really like
This episode is packed with insights, authenticity, and a whole lot of heart.
EPISODE NOTES:
Therapy is a very nuanced space where therapists use their authentic selves in tandem with their theory.
Therapists are not the expert of your life. They are there to guide you to grow and evolve.
Therapy is not a blame game, and therapists do not sit back in judgement.
Therapy is more than just a therapist listening - it’s a truly experiential process.
You don’t have to wait until you’re in dire circumstances to come to therapy. Sometimes, you don’t even have to know what your specific goals are!
Therapy is for everyone. Everyone can benefit from therapy.
Learn more about the team you heard from today here!
Liz Higgins: (00:03)
Hey y'all! Liz Higgins here, and welcome to the Millennial Life Podcast, where my goal is to share conversations that will inspire you and drive you toward the life and relationships you desire As your host, I'm here to share what I've learned as a licensed therapist and bring you the transformative voices of other professionals and experts that want you to cultivate relational wellness for life. Thanks for listening, and enjoy the episode!
Liz Higgins: (00:32)
Welcome to today's podcast episode! Today you are going to be hearing, not only from me, but from our entire team of licensed couples therapists at Millennial Life Counseling. We decided to come together, guided by Dr. Taylor Dyson on our team, to debunk some of the common myths and misconceptions about therapy. So, today we're gonna deep dive into therapy, couples therapy, some of the myths and expectations people carry around about therapy, and share some of our insights and thoughts on this topic. Enjoy!
Taylor Dyson: (01:12)
Hey everybody! This is our girl gang at MLC. Um, we are really coming together, one, because we have important information that we wanna share, and today we just wanna take some time to debunk therapy myths, share just a little bit about ourselves, what life is like with us as a therapist, and just some of the misconceptions in the myths that exist in society. Things that have become just... There, there's just a wide range of misconceptions out there. And as therapists, you know, it's really important to us to not be, you know, gatekeepers of this information. Like we want people to really understand what it is that we do, why we do it, and, you know... Just really be informative about reasons why mental health is important, reasons why you should seek therapy, reasons why therapy is for you. And some of the misconceptions and the myths that exist can be a barrier to someone starting the process. Because they, they might not be sure that it, that it is for them, or that it would align with, you know, just their walk of life.
Taylor Dyson: (02:20)
So, I think we will have a good time sharing what it's like for us. Different things that we've heard, misconceptions or myths that we challenge - even in the therapy room. Even when we get the person in the room, you know? What they think it is. And it's, it's really a beautiful thing to see when someone comes in with a misconception, and you're able to really just share, like, 'That's not what therapy is at all.' And they kind of do this like, 'Oh, okay!' You know? 'Now I can open the door for this, or open the door for that... Or actually spread the word and encourage others to seek those opportunities!' So, that is what we're going to do today. And I don't know, like... Does anybody, is anyone itching to share their first myth or frustration? I think that... One that probably translates for the human side of being a therapist for me is the myth or misconception that we have it all together.
Taylor Dyson: (03:20)
That our lives are straight laced, that we are mentally healthy in all capacities. We are mistake-free and almost put up on, put on a pedestal that takes away the part of me that isn't a therapist. And I like to separate that for balance, you know? Sure. I, I do take the things that I learn and implement in session. Like I want, I definitely have goals of being mentally healthy in all capacities, but I'm still growing and evolving. And it can be frustrating and sometimes invalidating to just take that hat off, you know? And make mistakes without the judgment or the criticism that like, 'Oh, and, and you supposed to be a therapist?' I am, I am, you know? I am a therapist, for sure. But therapists make mistakes. Therapists don't always get it right.
Taylor Dyson: (04:21)
And it, it doesn't always feel fair to have that perception that we, you know, we do have it, that we have it all together. I think for me, it's, it's almost like a badge of honor for me to say that I don't. Especially in the therapy room, because you have someone on the other end that is presenting all of their stuff, whatever that stuff is. And what would it look like to sit across from someone who has it all together, you know? Would, would she understand me? Would she be relatable? I want to be relatable so I... Please call me well-rounded because I make mistakes. And I, and I, I own those too, you know? As a parent, there's that pressure there. Like, 'Oh, Taylor's kids are probably...' Look. Taylor's kids are like everybody else's kids. And as a mom, I'm just like everybody else's mom. Like, please, please don't gimme that.
Taylor Dyson: (05:14)
Please do not gimme that. I don't want it. I do not want it. I don't know how y'all feel, but take that. Release me of perfection, because I am an imperfect person who invites imperfect people to come sit on my couch. So I think I would clash with someone who thinks they're perfect, you know? Because I think we always have room to grow. I'm a forever growing person, a a forever student. So, other people can help me pour into me. I'm, I'm, I'm just, as much of a person needs watering as the next person. So, that is one of the myths that I wanna debunk is that therapists do not have it all together. Hey, Anne!
Anne Streett: (05:53)
I'm gonna, I'm gonna piggyback off of that because I think that in the assumption that we have it all together, sometimes clients can assume that we sit in a place of judgment, you know? Like, we're gonna do some assessment, we're gonna make some determinations. And that somehow means that we're gonna make judgments about who they are andtheir lives. And I think that I, I come across a lot of clients that worry that I'm gonna blame their struggles on their parents. Or that in that assessment process, we're gonna determine like, who was the enemy? Who was at fault? You know? And I'll either see, like, an abundance of people that wanna strike that blame, or a lot of people that are very protective of their families and their parents. And they don't wanna go down that line at all. You know, they, they wanna protect that blame process, you know?
Anne Streett: (06:51)
And so I really wanna emphasize in that myth that like, therapy is not about blame. It's not about finger-pointing. It's really more of an empowerment venture, you know? Where we wanna understand context, but not assign causality, necessarily. You know, everything has its influences, everything has its impacts, but we're not sitting here trying to determine who the boogeyman was, who the bad guy was, and then just wrap it up and walk out from that place, you know? So I just really wanna encourage anyone listening here that may worry that we're just gonna rip apart your family system, that that's not the goal. And that's not helpful either, you know? So that, that's an important one for me - that we just wanna understand how we react to stress, and what maybe impacted that. What experiences influenced that. But not as a form of finger-pointing. Yeah, that's an important one for me!
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (07:53)
I'd love to just piggyback off of what Anne said. Hey, y'all! I'm Ashley Marie, and I'm also a couples therapist here at MLC. And I really do believe that people always have very good reasons for doing what they do. And so, not just will we not blame the family system, but I think about in the context of couples therapy. I'm not looking to point a finger at your partner is doing everything wrong, or you are doing everything wrong. We really do work to get at what's under that. Go, 'Okay, how do we understand the motivations here? And how do I help you talk to your partner about it without blame being assigned?'
Anne Streett: (08:33)
Yeah. Yeah. It totally extends. It's like, that comes up with individuals, comes up with couples, comes up with families. Yeah. Like the blame game is not our game.
Katie Hevia: (08:43)
For sure. I just wanna jump in here too. This is Katie, I'm also a couples and individual therapist at MLC. I really appreciate what everybody's saying. It also resonates with me because I find that sometimes, people are a little reluctant to enter therapy because they think that it's, it's gonna be somebody in a position of authority giving them some advice on their life. Telling them what they should do. And I think that's a really common misconception, and I'm hearing bits of that throughout what all of you are saying. We are not in a position to be judging, to be blaming, to be pointing fingers. And also to be giving advice or telling people exactly like, this is how you should be living your lives. So, I see that being a really common barrier. People wondering, I don't know. Is my therapist gonna tell me what to do? And if they tell me what to do, is it gonna align with my own value system or how I see my life? So even like a, a broader spinoff of that is people wondering, 'Do I need a therapist who perfectly aligns with how I see the world? Because I assume they're gonna give me advice, and I wanna make sure that that advice aligns with how I value my life.' Um, a good example of that is a couple coming in for therapy and divorce is just not on the table for them. They might think to themselves, 'If I have a therapist who believes that divorce is an option, they might tell me to break up. And that's a really scary thought.'
Taylor Dyson: (10:11)
I was gonna say that, you know, it is, it is important to me to give the power back to the client when it comes to their story and their lives. You know? I remember someone calling, like, referring to me as "an expert". Like, when you finish school, you're like the therapy expert. Like, oh, that, that, okay... I'll take it. But, um, even utilizing that, I, I, I still separate that. I can be the expert when it comes to the skills that I bring to the therapy room, and how I shift and navigate this system. But you are the expert of your life. I don't know anything about you. I need you, I need all of you to be able to tell me what life is like for you.
Taylor Dyson: (10:58)
I don't wanna assume, I don't want to fill in the blank for you. All of that is you, everything that you bring to therapy is you, you know? And please, please bring that. Please bring, please bring you! So I know in which way I'm going to provide therapy that's unique to your specific needs. And so that I'm not, we're not pulling things out of the hat about what worked for this couple or what worked for that couple. This is catered to you specifically. And you know... I think that is important for clients to know that we might see eight people a day, but we are doing eight different, we are maneuvering eight different ways. You know? That one, that one's shut off and that one's complete for the day. But when you come in, all focus is on you and your goals. Your specific goals. And I'm not trying to figure out how to take from the nine o'clock and insert into the 10 o'clock and just, you know, give, you, just give you something. You know, anything. So I agree, you know, Katie, that, um, it's important to, to spread the word on that.
Liz Higgins: (11:57)
I love that y'all. And I think that, um, it kind of evokes for me, like, the reality that there's this certain level of humility in this role that we have. 'Cause like, just to be transparent with listeners, right? Like, we get in our heads about stuff, we wanna push ourselves really hard to learn all the things and become the best we can be for our clients. But it's a line to balance, because what you said is so true. Like, we are not the expert of another person's life or felt experience. I think of it more as like, uh, being a guide or a co-traveler. That's really what this is to me. And it's just one of the most amazing things to experience with clients in therapy, because I do think many of them pursue us looking for that expertise that we're gonna bring to the process. I mean, shoot, that's what I look for when I go search for coaches, or a therapist, or whatever. I wanna know that they know their stuff. But I think a great clinician really is somebody that can artfully guide somebody back to "You have everything that you need within you to figure this out, to grow, to evolve." And we just kind of help people get there.
Liz Higgins: (13:14)
What are some other myths? Because these are good!
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (13:17)
You know, Katie said something that sparked an idea for me when she said that you don't have to align exactly. And I see clients from lots of various belief backgrounds, lots of different worldviews. I have clients that come from various Christian backgrounds, Jewish backgrounds, Muslim backgrounds, and no religious faith. And various other spiritual practices. Obviously, I can't hold all of those beliefs myself. And so, it's okay that if you and your therapist don't come from the exact same worldview or exact same religious background. Here at MLC, that will be welcomed and honored, and your belief system will be respected,
April Henry: (14:01)
I always kind of pitch that, like, I'm more interested in relating to the emotion that they're bringing in the room rather than like, experience, or your religion, or your family culture, those types of things. I think we can all, even as therapists relate to emotions like anger, and loneliness, and sadness, and those are the things that clients are typically bringing into the space. So I think it's just important to let clients know that we, too, have experienced those things. And if nothing else, we can relate to that emotional experience, even if it's not specific to what the client may be bringing into the room. I know sometimes I get intake calls or, consultation calls where they're like, 'Have you had experience with this specific thing?' And I'm like, 'No, you know... I wanna be honest in that way,' but I have experienced different woundings and experiences in my own life.
April Henry: (14:57)
And so I think that's just important to amplify that. And, and I hope that that brings like an element of relatability into the room versus like, this need to be the same. So, I'm a person that really values diversity and I think that like, you know... Of course we're not in this field to, to gain from our clients in any way, but I do think it is kind of an exchange in which you're learning from your client and they are, they're learning and, and kind of gaining from the experience in the room. And so, yeah, I just think that that's important to like highlight that we've, we've been there in some capacity and that's important for them to, to know and connect with.
Taylor Dyson: (15:42)
It makes me think that there's also two sides to that. Because I do think that we do take, like, a not knowing stance when it comes to the client. And that's okay that we don't know it all. But I, I also would borrow, borrow the, the notion that we also do the work. And, you know, and enhance our cultural competency. I know I have just, throughout the years, when someone of a different walk of life or a different background has sat in my room, like... I've learned so much from other people that have made me want to dive more into understanding what that, what that, just what that looks like overall, you know? And it's, it's more of a generalized perspective for sure, that what I'm learning because it's, you know, the textbook version and not necessarily the the person explaining their individual worldviews.
Taylor Dyson: (16:44)
But when I am faced with something that I don't know a lot about, I go and do some research about that, or I go and, and talk to other individuals who don't mind being transparent about what that looks like, because it also assists us in being culturally sensitive to the way we formulate questions, the things that we say or don't say. So even when we don't know a lot about it, I think it's important that they know that we go and seek more information to continue to build that rapport and that trust in that environment. So that they also continue to feel safe in, in the, in the therapy room.
Liz Higgins: (17:19)
Yeah. And that, Taylor, is probably debunking another myth that's out there, which is like, you know, I pay for one hour of therapy and like whatever happens in that space from five o'clock till six o'clock, like that's, that's all I have paid for. And we know that's... And, and I feel proud that that's kind of a differentiator. Because to be quite honest, there are a lot of clinicians that do that because, you know, they're seeing 30 clients a week. And they're burning out. And there's not a lot of time to put into that stuff. But yeah, I think that's just one of our values that we're... We want to grow, we want to know our clients and learn when we need to and fill those gaps. And you're getting so much more than one hour when you work with us, you know? And when you work with a clinician that values those things that you talked about. So true.
Anne Streett: (18:06)
Yeah. I, I'm gonna jump in because, you know... I'm thinking back to things that I frequently hear from clients in that first session. You know? And a lot of them will share previous therapy experiences, you know? So this is where I think a lot of us are getting in touch with some of those myths, and sometimes lived experiences that they're coming from. And, you know, a lot of them will share if they've had bad, bad experiences. Bad situations where they didn't get what they needed. Or it, it actually caused some damage, you know? Which is so unfortunate. Um, but it can start to form like their understanding of what a therapist does. And I think I see, a lot, that people either think that a therapist is just using themself or they're just using their theory. And I really think that it's a combination of both.
Anne Streett: (19:00)
Like it's a very nuanced space where we use our authentic selves. And that looks different - obviously we're all different people, but in tandem with our practice and our theory. And it's so important because, what that means is that you're gonna get some vulnerability from us, too. You know, I think it's like a really tall order to ask our clients to show up and to speak vulnerably about what they've been through. And then for us to kind of just sit back and take that in a monotone sense... Like, that feels, like, really unsteady and precarious, I think. For clients to, to take that risk and share, and for us not to show our impact in return. You know? So I think that that's one thing that I wanna, kind of like, hover around is that we use our authentic selves, but in tandem with our theory. The thing that we've tried to perfect - our modalities, and practice that we pull from our interventions, right? It, and it's not just one or the other that make you a therapist, really.
Katie Hevia: (20:04)
I really appreciate that. And I actually, I mean, in, in, uh, the spirit of being vulnerable, I... The way that I've found myself - very rarely, but on occasion - showing my clients who I am in session is if I have a couple who I've been seeing for a long time and they have this like, amazing breakthrough moment and it's just so moving... I catch myself getting, like, a little teary-eyed. 'Cause I just, that's just who I am. Like, I cannot help it. I'm so proud of them. I'm so happy for them seeing them go through that moment. And it's just genuinely beautiful. And so I, I know they can see it, you know? It's okay. But I think that's just something, for a lot of therapists, there's this question of like, 'How, like, human and emotional can we be in front of our clients?' And I really think that it's been a good thing whenever it's happened, because the client just knows like, 'Hey, this is moving. And this person who we've been doing this vulnerable work in front of for a really long time sees that it's moving too.'
Liz Higgins: (21:04)
She's real, she's human. Just like us. Like look at that. I see it.
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (21:08)
Not a robot!
Liz Higgins: (21:11)
You know, it takes me back to grad school, you know? Because we're kind of in our heads about that a little bit, I think, especially when we're new to the field. It's like, do you grab the tissue box or do you not? Like we kind of read into these things.
Liz Higgins: (21:24)
I love your, I love your practice with that, Katie. 'Cause I've tried to cultivate that myself, too. Like, it's good to show clients that you're real. It's okay for that stuff to happen. In fact, I think it can really have an impact on them as well. Yeah.
Taylor Dyson: (21:41)
I, like... When you think about things that you might hear throughout your time. Like, one of the, one of my favorite things to hear is like, 'I couldn't wait to, like, I couldn't wait to see you this week to tell you!' You know? And it's like, when someone anticipates coming to therapy, sharing their wins or airing their grievances. But, but trusting you with it. And 'I couldn't wait to see you to process this with you.' It speaks volumes for the, the impact and the rapport of that therapeutic relationship. And, you know, when Anne was talking about, you know, what we bring to the table. Like, sure, we, we learn all this stuff. But when I think about MLC and... And we've talked about this before. That even with working with ladies, like it's a bunch of women! And, and you would think that it would be kind of catty, and petty, and all those things. But it's not, it is not.
Taylor Dyson: (22:34)
And because what we bring to the table - beyond our education - is ourselves. And there's so much beauty in our ability to just shine as our individual selves. And that's also what we bring to the therapy room is ourselves. That's what makes us different. Each of us bring something different to the therapy room. And that's, you know, that's, that's, it's just, I mean, it's just beautiful, right? And it, and it helps us, you know, um, determine how we refer. Um, because we know that this is something that you're extremely passionate about and you would be a great fit because we've gotten to know one another to, to be able to do that. So, when I think about like, what helps MLC stand out? Like, it's each individual that's right here. So, and that's what we bring to the table.
Anne Streett: (23:20)
Yeah. I'm sure everybody, like in your own lives, you've heard people kind of like whittle down what we do to 'How do you listen to people all day?' Like as if that's it. The job is so easy.
Anne Streett: (23:36)
Yeah. We're just passive listeners. We just listen to people all day, you know? And like, that really is a huge myth that we just sit and listen all day. We do a lot of listening, but, um, it's an incredibly experiential process. You know, like we are making connections in real time, in the moment. And I know that you all have had that experience where you see the connection being made. It's happening, it's occurring. And that happens through emotion, through emotional expression. The body changes, eye contact changes, they're shifting in their chair, they're making moves and shifts in real time. And it's such an experiential process, you know? And so I think I wanna push up against that idea that is just a passive, we're just talking, talking, listening, talking, listening. That's a piece, a very small piece, but it's an experiential exchange that's going on. Um, that's pushing the needle for them. Yeah.
Katie Hevia: (24:38)
And that's, that's a huge point. And I see a lot of people who are, when they're considering therapy, they might say something to the effect of, why can't I just go talk to my friends about it? Yeah. And I think that what you just said really speaks to what's different about the therapeutic process and how involved it is. And how your friend cannot do that for you. They might be a great listener and they really love you and care about you, but it's just a different process.
Anne Streett: (25:07)
I mean, there are rules why we can't be friends with our clients, you know?
Liz Higgins: (25:10)
And, why you can't therapize your own family and friends.
Taylor Dyson: (25:15)
Yes. Yeah. There you have it, Liz. That's what I was gonna say! Some people try to take, try to take advantage of that a little bit. 'Can I talk to you? Can I talk? You don't wanna talk to me? You don't wanna talk to me?' No, no, you cannot. No, no. We cannot talk. They will, people, friends, and all types, you know, parents all, you know, they'll try to squeeze their way in and get a little therapy from you from time to time. But it's definitely a necessary boundary. You know, it's, it's, and it's not that we don't want to hold space for you. There's that dual relationship that we, we can't cross. So, and I don't, sometimes I don't wanna, I don't, well... All the time I don't wanna do it. But, you know, if you're a parent, or we go to the gym together, I wanna keep that. I wanna keep that safe, you know? I don't want to, to blur the lines. And I want to just really, hold space for that and keep it separate. So... I think some people think that that it, it could come off a little abrupt and rude, but it, there's a reason why those boundaries are in place.
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (26:24)
Yeah. Taylor, just to piggyback off of that... I think that that's probably one of my greatest frustrations. When I see therapists on TV or in movies, is you so often see these dual relationships being created. And my husband doesn't even wanna watch a TV show with a therapist in it with me, because I'll just yell at the TV the whole time. The whole time going 'That's unethical! You would lose your license for that. That's not okay.' And we really do take things like ethics very seriously. And I've had conversations, actually, with multiple clients about how yeah, if, if I weren't your therapist, we would probably be friends. But then I couldn't be your therapist. Right? And this is an important role, and so we can't be friends. And we've had to navigate what that looks like to make sure that we keep this sacred space sacred.
Liz Higgins: (27:13)
Mm-hmm. It's just such a space in the therapeutic relationship to like, it's a beautiful thing to get there where it's like, wow, that vibe really is a piece of this experience where there's just such a trust and understanding and, and regard for, you know, that, that you kind of experience in that space. But I think, ultimately, the goal too is to help the client get out into that life and learn how to cultivate that in a new relationship. So, yeah. Yeah.
Anne Streett: (27:43)
I, I think also, like, the media portrays therapy as this, like last resort too, you know? Like, if you're just at your wit's end and it's do or die, like, then you go to therapy. You know? And I, I actually like plead with any listeners that think that that's the case, because it's actually harder to come back from something so severe than catching patterns kind of early on. You know, not impossible, of course, but like more painful, I think. You know, so you, you don't have to wait, you don't have to be in dire circumstances to come to therapy. And sometimes, you don't even have to know specifically what your goals are. Like, we are completely capable and trained to help you fine-tune what that is, and to explore the process. And shine a light on why it's hard to even figure that out, you know? So it's not a last-ditch effort.
Katie Hevia: (28:41)
Yeah. And I would say that stigma is, is really true for couples. I think there's a lot of vulnerability for couples to just decide together, 'Hey, it's time for us to go to therapy.' And it's even harder to do that when there's this idea that couples going to therapy means they're on the brink of breaking up. So really being able to just share with people, like, 'Hey, there's a lot of couples that go to therapy really proactively really early in their relationship before they're even married. And it's just a great tool to make sure that your foundation is really solid.' Um, it's just such an important thing for people to be aware of.
Taylor Dyson: (29:16)
Yeah, yeah. You know, I, I, therapy has evolved so much from where we, where it started to, you know, present day. And I, I still think that there's like a lingering myth to that. Like if I don't have a diagnosis or, um, yeah, basically like if I, if I don't have a diagnosis or I'm not struggling where my life is impaired, then therapy is, is is not for me. And, you know, to the evolved perspective that therapy is for everyone. Therapy is is for everyone, and everyone can benefit from therapy. And there is, there is still a spectrum of the type of therapy that you get depending on what you're presenting. But everyone can benefit and would benefit from, from therapy. So it there this, this perspective that, oh, if I tell someone I'm seeing a therapist, they're gonna think I'm, you know, in distress and I'm impaired and I, I, and I have a diagnosis and I have, I have to keep that a secret.
Taylor Dyson: (30:18)
Almost from, like, 'No one can know, no one can know that I'm in therapy,' you know? And, um, to, to an evolved perspective of 'Let me tell people I'm in therapy.' And they see that as something that is empowering and like, 'Good for you, and tell me more about that.' And, and we're, we're highlighting it as something that is a necessity. And growth-oriented versus like, 'Oh, you know, mm, did you, did you hear so-and-so is in therapy?' Like, we, it should, it shouldn't be that. It, it should be like, 'Oh, and if you have a referral, let me know 'cause I would love to get into that.' You know? That's what I would hope it's evolving into. But I do think that we still struggle with, like, 'Therapy isn't for me because I don't fit in this specific category.'
Anne Streett: (31:03)
Yeah. Right. "Therapy is for therapists."
Taylor Dyson: (31:07)
Mm-hmm. It is.
April Henry: (31:09)
Definitely a therapist who, who has my own therapist. So for sure that's a necessity.
April Henry: (31:17)
But, yes Taylor. To kind of tag onto your experience, I was just... We were just kind of chatting earlier about like, in the spirit of it being February, it being Black History Month. I think that is a common myth in the African American community thattherapy is a, a sign of weakness. Or you can't attend because there's, like, this misconception of like, being misunderstood. Or I think the bigger theme there is privacy and family loyalty. Like there's this expectation that what happens in the family stays in the family. The, the problems are solved in the family. Or they don't get solved in the family, but they, they are meant to stay there. And so a lot of, uh, people in our culture, I think the tide is really shifting now. And I think more people in, in the black community are starting to pursue therapy more.
April Henry: (32:11)
And I think there are more black therapists that are, are now kind of accessible to that community. But, it is a big thing that I see. I think specifically in male, in black male clients. I think I've had over the, the course of my work, maybe two or three black, individual, male clients beyond like, the couple space. And if I'm being honest, usually in the couple space there's the woman kind of pushing that, that need for us to come and be in that space. But yeah, I just kinda wanna normalize this space for our people specifically. And that it's not a sign of weakness to be here. I think it's deeply vulnerable and valuable to be in the space and, and it's not a a, a dishonoring of family dynamics should you choose to go to therapy and process things in that way. And so just really wanting to change that narrative there, I think is, is important for us.
Taylor Dyson: (33:10)
Yeah. For for sure. I, I, you know, when you think about e listening change, when you think about doing your part and what that, what that looks like? Um, community awareness has been something that I feel like is extremely important in terms of being informative. In terms of collaborating with the different leaders in different categories that can assist. Uh, you know, in terms of, you know, pastors and churches... And we're the safe spaces that have been, um, a safe space for us culturally that we are able to enter that space and kind of get that collaborative, um, okay. That like, I support this too, and y'all, like, I know where, where we've been, but the, the evolution of our resources have shifted. And it is okay to believe in God and go to therapy. It's okay to pray and go to therapy. And you're not being disloyal to your religion.
Taylor Dyson: (34:04)
You're not being disloyal to your family, um, for growing and, you know, and getting better. And it can, it can be, I also want to say that it can be hard when you might be the only one in within your family system that is leaning this way. Because you might hear negative comments, maybe even some criticism or encouragement to just let, let that go and you, you don't need it. You know, so you might not always be supported in that environment. So there, there's that piece of it that leaning in on your support system when you decide to take this leap. And you might not have all the backing that you desire behind it. And that's something, again, that you can work, work on in therapy. 'Cause it can be difficult. It can be difficult when you feel like you're walking a path of growth and evolution on your own, and you're wanting the support of your parents, or your siblings, or just, you know, your family in general. So everyone's not gonna be supportive of this process. No matter who we're talking to! But it is, um, it is important to know, kind of, what you're up against when you start this journey that, you know, everyone won't, won't be on this road with you.
April Henry: (35:11)
Absolutely. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Liz Higgins: (35:13)
I think that brings up just such a huge point around the, the choice to opt in to this work. You know, I feel like a myth that might be out there for people is like, you know, this isn't gonna change anything because they, they know that some of those, just, deep-rooted patterns, and ways of relating and being. And cultural factors and familial factor, you know? Just all that stuff is just so deeply ingrained. Like, how could it change anything? But I don't know... What, what do y'all say to that? Because we know on the other side, well, you know, change is always going to be possible. Even if you are the only one coming to this space. But what do you think about that?
Taylor Dyson: (35:58)
I hear, I mean, I hear it a lot. And I probably hear it from men more than I hear it from women. You know, like, 'Why am I here? This is like a waste of time. This lady don't know anything about me and what, what is she going to solve in the 45 minutes that we've been here?' You know? And, I usually challenge it. If you're asking me, I don't mind. I really don't mind the, the raw perspectives. Like, give it to me so that we can, we can sit with that, you know? And they don't even know that, even in that moment, they're getting therapy. Because we're just gonna, you know, have this conversation. I want, I definitely wanna know more about why, why that perspective exists and what you were hoping. What you were expecting and hoping to occur in, in this space. You know?
Taylor Dyson: (36:52)
And if it was all said and done, and you went through this process, what would it look like to have elicited some change? You know? And, um, and is the resistance from you? Or is it from this, this space? You know, because you are in control of the change just as much as I am. Because it goes back to we don't fix everything. We don't know everything. We're a part of the process, but we're not the entire process. And without your buy-in, yeah, we could sit here for weeks, and nothing changed. That could be the reality. And we could, we, we could make that the reality or we could work as a team and, and we, and we can, um, elicit another goal. So it, that's why the clients have so much power that they don't even know that they have! Depending on their perspective, depending on their buy-in, depending on how intentional they are in session and out of session, it makes, it makes all the difference.
Taylor Dyson: (37:47)
So, yeah. But I do, I, I do hear it, Liz. People, people will say that. There's the 'What is this person gonna do? What is, what is she gonna do? She's not gonna solve it.' And mainly, going back to Anne's point, is they've probably lived with this so long, that that's become the narrative of their life. That things don't change because you came to therapy years after the problem existed, and now you think in the 45 minutes... I agree! Nothing's gonna change in the 45 minutes, but I'm willing to go on this journey with you, you know? To get to the point where you are able to see change.
April Henry: (38:23)
Yeah. Yeah. I, I feel like we've talked about this already, but I think that just really amplifies, like... I don't know about y'all, but I'm the therapist that's like, you gotta move. Like you gotta be willing to execute and to like, walk some stuff out beyond this space. And I think that kind of feeds back into the narrative that like, we are the, like, we should be providing this space for you to like, feel all the change that you need to feel. And like the, the, the true, the truth underneath that is, like, as the client, there is work that you have to do. And you can absolutely do some of that in a, in our 50 minute sessions. But there's life that you are living well beyond that 50 minutes. And you have to really take advantage of that. And I think our responsibility is like helping clients understand what they can be doing out in the real world to help them move the needle forward and the change that they're trying to seek, but knowing that they have to want that, and they have to be the seeker of that.
April Henry: (39:31)
And we can't do that for them. So I'm big on that first session. I'm like, 'Hey, I'm here to process with you, but like, at the end of the day, like, you gotta, you gotta do some stuff. You gotta help me move you through this.' And so, um, I really like, I think that the pace of change can be kind of dependent on that. Also, the client's... Not, not even just willingness, but their ability to go and execute some of those things in the real world. And so, um, I think the clients that are a little bit more motivated to seek out that change may see a more fast paced - if you will - change in the therapy room. Versus a client who (and I wanna be like, I'm, I'm trying to be really intentional in my language 'cause I get that some clients just don't know how to do that.) And so, again, it's like a piece of our responsibility to help them know and, and learn how to do that, and then go and, and be in, in it. So.
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (40:37)
Yeah. Gotta do the work.
Anne Streett: (40:39)
And it's like, a lot of times it's expanding what they think change even means, you know? Because a lot of people will be very locked into their specific idea of what change has to mean. You know? And part of therapy is kind of challenging even that like, 'Okay. You are so focused on change looking like this, that it's keeping you from this other path that maybe you didn't even think about or anticipate,' you know? So it's defining what change even means, you know? Yeah. What it could mean. I feel like we could do like an entire other episode on just the myths of couples therapy, because if I'm being honest, I think I hear most of the doubts coming from people that have had poor couples therapy experiences, you know? You just kind of walk in assuming that that is just gonna happen all over again.
Anne Streett: (41:32)
And they're like, let's just get this over with. You know. Um, and I, I think a lot of them kind of hover around, like, that the therapist can't be unbiased. Or that there's gonna be alignment somewhere. Uh, yeah. With one partner over the other, you know? I feel really feel for a lot of the men that come in and are like, 'I'm about to get ganged up on by these, my wife and this female therapist.' You know? And it's so important to us to create a space that feels like it's gonna work for both people. And if it's not, we work with that and we move around it. And we, we adjust and we're flexible, you know? But that is, I know, an incredibly important objective for everybody here.
Liz Higgins: (42:23)
Well, Anne... I'm wondering, can I ask you a question about that? Like when, in your experience - because you, and obviously I know all these women here have the skill and the practice of being able to sit with a client that might have the guard up and be like, 'okay, you know, not interested, not open, you're gonna team up against me.' But, but because you know how to kind of navigate that space and work with it, what would you say to listeners in terms of how long it actually takes to see a person kind of put the guard down and be more willing to show up therapeutically? Whether it's a resistant partner or, you know, whatever. Yeah. And it's not one size fits all, right? But I'm just like, does, do you find that it takes a really long time to crack that type of individual or, or not?
Anne Streett: (43:14)
So... I mean, sometimes yes. But I, I think that if we are going about it authentically, then trust starts to occur. You know? And I, I understand - especially those first few sessions - like, my job is to earn the trust, you know? That, that they're gonna be respected in this space. I'm not out to get them. Um, and also that I'm not going to be operating from a reactive place. I think that that's maybe one of the most important things. I'm not gonna respond to you in a reactive place. I'm gonna slow myself down. I'm gonna try and really get you from your shoes, you know? And I think that that's maybe the most important thing, is to demonstrate the slowness that it takes to build trust back and forth. And that's not gonna be perfect. And I'll get it wrong sometimes, and I will be the first to say when I've gotten it wrong. And hopefully that helps build the trust too, you know? That, that endeavor. But we kind of, sometimes we'll go off course, but we'll get right back on track.
Katie Hevia: (44:20)
Yeah. I, I just wanna add to that. I think when, when thinking about resistance, especially in a couple, I think it's so important to work with that resistance instead of working through it. Like the, I think a common misconception is that our goal is just to get you to be vulnerable as quickly as possible. And just get right to like the, the hard work. But there's so much information and like, important "stuff" in whatever is behind that resistance. And so, really spending time in that is so valuable. And I think it can take as long as it's gotta take, right? Like that's, it's about, about building trust, like you said, Anne. Totally. Also just sort of like, 'This is what you're coming into the room with, let's spend some time with it.'
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (45:07)
Yeah. And I love what you just said, Katie, because I'll often tell my clients: we will, in couples therapy, have to go to hard places. But I'm not going to throw you in the deep end right away. I wanna metaphorically hold your hand as we get a little more success being vulnerable in small ways. And then you get more comfortable and you can be vulnerable and have success in that vulnerability in bigger ways.
Liz Higgins: (45:34)
I feel like we've debunked so many myths.
Anne Streett: (45:37)
So many we didn't even scratch the surface.
Liz Higgins: (45:40)
I know, I know. Did anybody actually look at their list? Because woo! We were just going. That was really cool though. So many good things.
Taylor Dyson: (45:48)
Yeah. Yeah, they are. And, and I, I just think it's, it's, it is an important conversation to continue to have, to just normalize that they're out there, you know? So when clients bring 'em to us, it's not the first time we're hearing it. We're almost anticipating. Ready, ready for it. And, um, and, and, and like Anne said, not from like a reactive place, but more as an opportunity to share what the reality is, you know? Hoping to ease some of the, some of that anxiety. Hoping to normalize more of this space, to spread the word so that others are more informed about what it really is versus what it, what it really is not. So, you know, having these conversations are for us to kind of, you know... Just to share what it's like for us, but also for, for the community to leave this conversation, you know, feeling like, 'Oh, like, oh, oh, okay!
Taylor Dyson: (46:40)
You know, lemme go tell somebody that this is not what therapy is.' So, you know... I'm definitely hoping that somebody gets something out of this from an educational standpoint and gets a, gets a live view of who we are, what we're like. I, I anticipate the more we do this, the more our personalities will shine and you all will be able to also just understand us on a personal level too. Which is the goal as well, for this to be just a casual space for us to just talk about all things therapy and just continue to spread, spread knowledge out there. So I enjoyed it!
Liz Higgins: (47:23)
Me too, me too. Yeah. Thanks for putting this together, facilitating it, too. So fun. This was awesome.
Anne Streett: (47:29)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I always love hearing from you all. I learned so much from each and every one of you, so this is special.
Liz Higgins: (47:37)
I, I, you all didn't think about that. It's like, this moment is like, you know, five therapists. Yeah. , well, I guess six, six of us. Yeah.
Ashley Marie Eckstein: (47:48)
Six. If you, you gotta count yourself.
Liz Higgins: (47:50)
Yes, yes. But I get to listen to five. I just, I feel like I learned and grew just then too. So until next time. Thank you, Taylor. Bye, ladies!
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